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Can a thief ever really be "lawful"?

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It's always confused me as to why a thief is prohibited from being lawful good, but can still choose the other lawful alignments.

Why is only LG prohibited? If the argument is that thievery, by its very definition, is unlawful, then shouldn't the other lawful alignments be prohibited as well?

Also, how exactly does one play as a LN or LE thief?


There will be a BG2EE stream for Extra Life Charity on October 2nd and 3rd, 2015

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Extra Life is an online grassroots movement working to save kids through the power of play.

If you remember, in October, 2014, Beamdog played IWDEE on Twitch as part of a charity drive for Extra Life.

Now, a man called Thomas Mason will stream BG2EE for Extra Life. It'll happen on October 2nd and 3rd, 2015.

All the money donated through his page will be given to Akron Children's Hospital.

They will be playing Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st Edition, URealms Live, and BG2EE.

As for BG2EE, they will be doing a dragon disciple run, just burning everything to the ground! October 2nd at 10pm eastern to 3am the next day will be the first session. The second session will be at the midnight on October 3rd. Anyone who want to join is more than welcome to come play!

http://www.extra-life.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.participant&participantID=151528

Oldschool BG fan's take on EE content

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Hi everyone, long time lurker here.

First of all, it's super awesome that Beamdog took BGs and revamped them into more modern and smooth form. I've finished SOA/TOB dozens of times, but never really got through BG1. I was 11 when it originally came out, and being a kid used to Diablo, it was just too damn hard. No internet, no metagaming, convoluted rules, steep difficulty curve for a low level party, etc - this ended up in throwing the game on the shelf and not getting back to it. BG2 and TOB came, and being a little older, I've enjoyed them like no other RPGs before. After going through them many times, I wanted to go back and finally finish the first one, but the general clunkiness of the engine and the low res made it hard to enjoy. Note that I'm talking about vanilla game, not being aware of any mods at that time. BGEE was the reason I finally went back to Candlekeep and enjoyed every minute of the game. Big thumbs up for Beamdog, for tweaking 90s game into something so playable, even by today standards.

Now the harsh part.

The main problem is that EEs pretends to be something more than cosmetic tweaks. The OMG NEW QUESTS/ITEMS/NPCS is in your face. You can't even start/load a game without going through screen with new characters. It's like developers are saying 'see how much we have created? it's not some free mod from the internet that you have to install through WEIDU, we've officially added whole new content with Bioware's approval, that's right there after you install the game!!11'. Now, there are lots of mods with new content out there, but they are below average. Most of them are on the level of bad fanfiction. They just so painfully stand out from the original game that you can't really enjoy them. So the new content, made by professionals, would be more than welcomed, right?

Here goes the disappointment:

1. New kits.

Some of the kits had their fair place in BG2, but in BG1 they're just plain overpowered, like berserker or archer. So what did Beamdog do? Added more overpowered kits. Seriously, poison weapon or defensive stance are so full of cheese it's not even funny. They would pass in BG2, with all the dragons, demons, backstabbing assassins and high level mages, but in BG they're just game breaking. Just put your dwarf in the first line and watch how the idiot AI is trying to hit him, instead of your archers or mages. Speaking of AI.

2. AI

Absolutely no changes, from what I've noticed. You can still kite enemies, and they will run around you character in circle like retards, while the rest of your party is showering them with arrows/spells. For veteran BG players this is really painful and takes away most of the fun out of the game. Without any new challenge each new playthrough feels like doing a grocery list. I guess that's why people are doing solo or no reload runs. Playing with full party, even on higher than core settings, is a walk in the park for folks who finished trilogy few times. There's absolutely no excuse why the AI wasn't improved. SCS was released completely for free, so a whole team of 'professional developers' couldn't improve this, even just a tiny bit? AI isn't hard coded, since we got SCS, so the only other excuse I can hear now is that 'they haven't got time'. Seriously dude? I thought you're releasing game (or enhancement, whatever) when it's 100% ready. They borrowed money from russian mob and had last month to pay it back or what? Without even slightest change in AI it's like they made it clear, that EE was marketed for young, modern-RPG players who can be fished with few flashy new NPCs.

3. NPCs

New NPCs were probably the most advertised aspect of EEs, and ironically they are their biggest failure. Now, I know that lot of folks here are content with the new characters and I'm probably gathering some serious hate right now, but let's take a look at them with sober eye.


Main problem is that all of them are 100% stock RPG characters and flat cardboard cutouts. We have bad, evil dark paladin, who with each banter has to remind you how badass he is. Beside that there's nothing more to him, just evil half orc grunt. Artwork looks cartoonish and it's like straight from WoW. You can't help but think, that developers had younger gamers in mind while creating him. You know, the ones that play mmorpgs and like to put their game badass character's pictures on facebook or as forum avatars. Evil paladin with colorful full plate, fancy video game sword, horned helmet and glowing eyes. So bad. Also, the voicing is terrible, he sound like some cheesy villain from 80s action flicks. And he sounds too much human, like couldn't they add some half orc barking just for flavour?
Next we have american quirky teenage mage Neera. Her manga-like artwork gives you a big clue what on to expect. You know guys, I'm kinda like sooooo powerful, but then, it's like, I totally can't control my powers! It's like, a total bummer, yeah? Her voicing and whole character concept is terrible and just mood breaking. Now, I know that there's a lot of subtle (and not so subtle) humour spread along the trilogy, and that's fine. I don't have a stick right up my ass and I enjoyed all of it - comical relief just added flavour (similar to Fallout 1&2). But she's just too much, it's like Beamdog said 'f*ck this, we're putting Juno in'. Similar to Dorn - can't help but think that she was made for younger gamers, not for veterans who'd rather have someone with more depth. Beside, the whole motif 'protagonist with magical gift being hunted for it' was rehashed in movies and novels so many times, that it became a cliche. Couldn't they came up with someone more original?
Rasaad - generic zen-like monk. Not much to say about him beside that he's boring and annoying as hell when he tries to share his 'wisdom' with you. Now, I know that it's a class that narrows the field for creating some original personality, but couldn't they add some interesting spin to him? Instead of making him the cliche calm and lawful monk you know from movies and other games, they could, for example, twist him into chaotic evil direction. You know, search for enlightenment went wrong, he turned crazy, killed his master etc. Instead, we have a cardboard cutout of video game badass monk. Except he's not badass - in BG1 he's close to useless. So in order to see some new quests, you have to deliberately cripple your party by taking him in.
And there's Hexxat, lesbian vampire dominatrix. Cheesiness of the highest degree. Her voicing in the Copper Coronet is the most cringe inducing thing I have heard (beside the stoner elf). I know that they've tried to make her a possessed, absent minded person with a mechanical voice, an empty shell etc. It ended in a fail of epic proportions. Seriously, you just want to kill her on the spot when she open's her mouth.
Baeloth - I know he's supposed to be an easter egg and stuff, but why the hell would you add some half-finished, cheesy NPC, instead of taking your time to refine the ones already created? Similar to Dorn, he's way too overpowered and his whole personality and portrait makes you think that he was intended for WoW teenagers (sarcastic and funny dark elf sorceror, it's liek totally awesome!')

It's unforgivable for people who are supposedly into oldschool RPGs to create such subpar NPCs. The writing is on teenage fanfiction level, which doesn't go very well with other Bioware characters and stands out painfully. Vanilla NPCs were the most awesome and colourful characters you had in computer RPG. Even the most straightforward ones, like Korgan, were extremely fun and likable, mainly because of banters and voice acting.

General cheesiness of their personalities aside - the main factor that makes me not wanting to take them again is their classes. Let's see what we have here.
Blackguard - overpowered, takes the fun and challenge out of the game. Like said above, in BG2 it's tolerable. In BG1 his abilities are almost game breaking. Part of the challenge was always the fact that you didn't have any really good fighters, beside Kagain and Shar-Teel. But that was ok and made the game more fun. Both BG1 and BG2 would be super easy, if you could create your powerhouse party from the scratch and have your 18/18/18/x/x/x dual wielding tanks. Making your way with flawed warriors was just fun. So why the hell add some powergamer wet dream? For new gamers who got EE from steam as a christmas present?
Monk - low level monks are useless. It's either throwing bullets from the back row and using special abilities, or micromanaging each fight so he can hit enemies which are enaged with fight with your tanks and won't hit him back. Why they've added him to BG1 is beyond my comprehension.
Wild mage and sorcerer - why adding classes that were already abundant in vanilla BG1? Alright, you didn't have wild mage nor sorcerer. But you had four pure spellcasters and one multi, both for good and evil parties, and wildie/sorc doesn't differ that much from mages. Were another arcane spellcasters really necessary?
Thief - same as above. In BG1 you have thieves literally everywhere, why another one? In BG2 it's more understandable, since the game suffers greatly from lack of good rogues, but couldn't they at least give her some fun kit, like swashbuckler or assassin? Instead, you got boring vanilla thief, which you have to micromanage constantly with that annoying cloak.

Couldn't Beamdog add NPC who have classes that weren't actually in vanilla game (and aren't as useless as low level monk)? Why not adding blade, or stalker, or fighter/mage, or ranger/cleric?

4. New quests

Sadly, the only new quests are related to the new NPCs. Was there any logical reason behind that? It's like the developers are saying 'you want those new quests? well, you can have them, but first you have to take those awesome new NPCs that we've created!'. You paid for the game, but you don't like the new characters. You think that at least you have some new quests? No.
Seriously, was it that hard to add even some minor stuff? And I'm not talking about quests with elaborate plot and new locations. Could be some guy in the tavern wanting you to assassinate someone, mage wanting you to bring him some potion ingredients, random encounters in Athkatla/Baldurs Gate, etc. Anything. Can this be explained in some other way than 'they didn't have the time'?
The only good part is that some of the new content is actually good, like Neera's quest in SoA. Fight in the enclave in waukeen's promenade was fun and challenging for 7-10 level party.

5. New items

The quantity of new items/weapons is so small, that it's not even funny. Was it that hard to add few weapons in each category, especially the one's that lacked power in the vanilla like spears/clubs/bastards? I'm not talking about throwing in dozens of +2/+3 stuff in BG1. Is it a problem to create some weapons/armour that are not overpowered and actually give you some diversity? This especially hurts in BG1, where most of the time you run with generic +1 swords or the rare unique stuff that game decides to give you at the moment, like varscona or spiderbane. It would be hell lot more fun to have some choice, take IWDs for example. It's sad that Beamdog didn't have time for that, but they've managed to include something like Bealoth in. Also, why the f*ck the only gem bag in BG1 is the Neera's one? Given the amount of jewelry loot in BG1, it would be awesome if you could buy the bag in at least few shops. Again, same as with new quests, this suppose to be incentive for taking this awesome new NPC.

Don't want to bore anyone, I think I'll stop here, as the main issues I have with EEs are covered.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Beamdog. I'm glad that they've exhumated BGs and polished them so they became more enjoyable than ever. Especially BG1, which hasn't aged very well. Like said in the beginning, EE made me rediscover BG1. As soon as I finish current run, I'm starting another one with a Blade.

The thing is, every single BG mod out there is for free. This is not. EEs had aspirations to be something more than mods, with all the new npcs/quests/kits/items hysteria. In the end, you just have few unlikable NPCs that don't fit in the canon, zero quests beside the NPC-related ones, few new items, and kits that are gamebreaking for BG1. This could've been easily made by a few (or even one) modders for free. So, where did all the money go? I know that porting the engine to ipad was probably the most difficult and expensive thing, fair enough. But couldn't Beamdog hire a few die hard fans who could actually create some new kickass content, that would be on the Bioware's level in terms of writing? Couldn't they get some guys responsible for SCS to get AI improved? It's sad, but I can't help but think that the main target for EEs are not people who love the saga and would kill for new stuff, but the modern kids who grew up on WOW and Witcher.

I know that most of the people here are fans of EEs - please don't feel offended and don't bash me. I'm bad at internet fights. Just wanted to share some of my sentiments and vent some dissapointment.

ps. english is not my first language, so this whole rambling might've sounded incoherent at times.

Is there any reason I shouldn't buy BG:EE and BG2:EE on my iPhone?

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Sooooooo
I have BG:EE, BG2:EE, and IWD:EE on my PC and love them to death. I bought IWD:EE on my iPhone and it's super great! So with that done I'm thinking of picking up BG:EE and BG2:EE. Are there any issues I should know about before picking them up? Also, how does one go about transferring your character from BG:EE to BG2:EE? Does it have a thing built in for that or do I need to use an outside program?

Beamdog, please...

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...find a way for us to mod games on our Iphones. No idea how it'd work, but it'd be worth paying for a platform which gives us access to player made mods.

Clua Console Won't Open

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Hiya, I'm not actually playing with the Enhanced Edition but I've been trying all morning to get the Clua Console to open. I've edited the Baldur.ini file but I can't seem to use Ctrl-Tab to open Clua Console in the game. Any suggestions?

Rasaad's BG2 quest so weak, it leaves me with not much faith for Dragonspear

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Just finished Rasaad's quest and even without bugs I find it abysmal compared to the rest of SoA writing & quests.

Here are some issues:
(None are bugs!)

0. Rasaad voice -- acting is fine, but there is a sound engineering problem that makes him sound like a tin kettle

1. Bad writing -- dialog choices break suspension of disbelief and nowhere nearly as witty as the writer may have imagined himself to be

2. No challenge -- it's a cake walk; a well played party has no challenge to face here; even the last fight has nothing to offer (and no rewards for the fight; see the next item)

3. disproportionate rewards -- I talk a bunch of hooey to four people at the temple and get four powerful items, not to mention some other easy to collect items earlier?! This is like some terrible pay-to-win DLC then?! Some of those items are far too awesome to collect so easily this early in the game (a Mirror Image ring; a "Beholder" Helmet with 9 CC charges PER DAY; a True Seeing gem -- easily TOB grade items, obtained with no challenge). And then the last fight gives you almost nothing.

4. Terrible resolution -- Rasaad just leaves?! I have no chance to negotiate?! No resolution or continuation to the romance even though I haven't even talked to the Shadow Thieves yet?! Is this a joke?! (I don't care if there is a dialog tree that could have led to another resolution; the writing is very opaque and weird; and I don't reload.)



In a way I am relieved that I no longer need to put up with Rasaad and can continue with the original BG2 NPCs.

This, combined with the terrible quest design of Neera (there is not even a Wild Magic zone; and again no challenge) and the abysmal writing of Hexxat that I had seen in some earlier playtroughs gives me very little faith in Beamdog's ability to pull off a well-written RPG by themselves.

I will buy Dragonspear only if many people I respect on this board try it first and vouch for me to have been wrong on this point.

The Bhaalspawn's True/Canon Fate

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So, how many people here know the canon fate of the protagonist Bhaalspawn?

In the Forgotten Realms novels, the protagonist Bhaalspawn, Abdel Adrian ends up turning down the Throne of Bhaal, and walking away from it while retaining his Bhaalspawn essence.

WotC have released a tabletop P&P campaign called "Murder in Baldur's Gate", in which Duke Abdel Adrian is slain by his half-brother Viekang (the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Trademeet and Saradush), which transforms Viekang into the Slayer. When the players of the campaign kill Slayer-Viekang, Bhaal is resurrected.
So basically, all the protagonist Bhaalspawn's actions in Baldurs Gate 1, 2 and ToB, were for nothing. Bhaal still got what he wanted, his children were nothing more than the fuel for his resurrection after all.

I think these events, are going to make it very hard for Beamdog to get permission to make a BG 3, unfortunately.

Did you know?

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So this is just a thread for interesting things that people have picked up over the years. While most of the information has been freely available for some time, the game is big enough that you might find something you missed. If not, it's still fun to see just how much detail the developers put in.

Did you know that if you are playing an elf named Drizzt, and your reputation is under 12, Drizzt will attack you? Did you also know that if you kill the three mages guarding the skyship devices in Baldur's Gate, then Shandalar skips the 'asking' part of sending you to the Ice Island? Not surprising, given that they were his daughters. Guy is probably a bit angry at you.

Thief stealth skills question

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What are the recommended stealth skills for BG 1 and then later for BG2 for a reliably stealthy thief (i.e. Bounty Hunter)?

And as I recall there is no difference in HiS or MS, as the two are totaled and then divided by 2 for a total stealth score, so any reason to favor MS over HiS?

Just a Thank You

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Well I began these games in June of 2014 and after many breaks and errors, frustrations and replays of whole sections I have finally finished!! A great victory - but I could not have done it without you, at this site, providing GREAT advice and some important game fixes, because believe me I would not have finished (I refused to play at a lower level.) Now I have to decide if I want to play the next installment ....? Anyway THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

Devour Brain working on Mustard Jelly? SPOILER

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I thought I was being crafty by using the Cloak of the Sewers to turn Minsc into a mustard jelly to tank 3 mindflayers, thinking that he'd be immune. No, they still ate his brain and killed him, in like 3 seconds. This just doesn't seem right ;)

Swashbuckler: weapon and ability progression

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Running an evil swashbuckler on SCS soon and I've got a few questions!

1. I plan to get him into dual wielding scimitars, but I'm not interested in cheesing Drizzt and it will be a long time until I get both Rashad's Talon and all the required gear to turn him into a good tank (Claw, RoP+2, Cloak of Balduran/Displacement and multiple Potions of Defense). Should I be using a ranged weapon until then? I'm particularly interested in Daggers.

Throwing Daggers are nice, 2 APR and the natural high charname strength bonus applies, and they are also the most "Swashbucklery" of the options. Geez, I've used a knife-juggling Shar-Teel in the past and she was a monster, doing ~70 damage per round with negative THAC0 when drunk on potions. In BG2 I could get the Boomerang Dagger+2 and Firetooth, which I never used before but are apparently pretty good.

2. I plan on keeping Safana in my party for the first two thirds of the game at least, and she should take care of scouting and Find Traps for the time being, so which thief skills should I focus on? I might put a few points in Open Locks (60~) and complement it with thief potions and Edwin's Knock. Set Traps is attractive and new to me, but I'm not sure if the few uses available in BG1 are worth the points. Detect Illusion seems pretty decent for a SCS run, but it's either max or nothing.

3. Come ToB, which abilities should I take? Swashbucklers get Whirlwind and for the first time Great Evasion looks good with all the AC stacking.

Who is more Adorable: Gnomes or Halflings?

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So, between our two shortest races, which is the most cute? I like gnomes more due to their connection to Fey (and therefore canonly being able to have crazy hair colors).

Resurrection/Raise Dead not penalised in BG

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After God knows how many years of playing this game I've only just noticed that a resurrected npc doesn't suffer a Constitution loss. Is this a change in editions subsequent to 2e (where a character permanently loses one point of Constitution every time they are resurrected), a deliberate omission, or an oversight?

What does the Charname say?

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We've all roleplayed characters at least once, so what are so of the things/remarks/comments your personal Charname made to specifc events in the BG saga? Obviously I'm referring to comments that aren't actually in the game.

Hi'keem the Dragonborn at the final battle with Irenicus.

" I'm tired of this *beep* elf! You kidnapped us, killed Khalid, killed Dynahier, tortured Imoen, tortured Mincs, tortured Jaheira, and caused Viconia to be turned into a vampire...

Now elf, there is no more running, and you have no sister left to hide behind. There is just you, me, and so much pint up anger; that I'm about to pound you so hard, Viconia is going to be jealous."


Finding Imeon on spellhold .

"Heya! It's me, Hi'keem!"

Bringing Dorn, still want to make my own blackguard, weapon issues

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As the topic says, I'm making an evil party for BGEE and BG2EE, and I'm going to bring Dorn along for the ride. The problem is, that I'd like to play a blackguard myself.

I realize that an assassin would fit my party better, but I'm very much a paladin at heart. Thus, playing a corrupted version of myself would be fun. The other issue here, is that I was going to run it at the same time as my own new paladin. That paladin is going to run Sword and Shield through ToB, (I've done DW paladin before and beaten the game. I felt like I cheated because of doing it. Just didn't fit flavor wise and I'd EEkeepered it). So I was going to make my own blackguard the opposite. 2h weapon, full damage, has a ranged weapon etc.

Then I remembered I wanted dorn, and realized that I would literally be fighting him for every piece of gear I wanted.

HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!

(For the record, the assassin's mirror will likely be the NG blade that I'm playing in theory).

PS: I do intend on running a blackguard eventually at least. I'm going to try to match @Blackraven and @bengoshi and turn into the forums Paladin Master/Expert. So these runs will likely be no-reload as well. I haven't decided on SCS yet =/

Custom PC & NPC Portraits

Which Charname should I use in my iOS run of BG/BG2?

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So I just got BG:EE and BG2:EE for my iPhone and now am coming to the greatest decision, what charname to play. I usually play the "characters" Val'myr Zaur, a Drow Necromancer and Piro Faeren, of whom is usually a gnome bard (but no gnome Bards in an unmodded BG). Anyway, here are the characters I'd be interested in playing. If Val I'll romance Neera and if Female then I'll romance Anomen (and if not Anomen then Rasaad).

I mainly want to focus on party support with a dark magick theme.

Edit: I made an error, I thought Priests of Talos could be Chaotic Neutral (I've been playing too much IWD:EE, obviously XD) Change that to a Cleric of Helm since they can be CN.

Portraits for Baldur's Gate from Might & Magic: Heroes VI and now from Might & Magic: Heroes VII too

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I think that many of us try to stay away from the unfortunate games in the HOMM series. M&M:Heroes VI generally associates with a subpar product.

But having tried the game itself, I've found out that at least hero portraits (if not all but certainly several of them) in that game can be interesting.

Here I present you the portrats of Might & Magic: Heroes VI in the suitable format for BG (210x330 pixels, 24-bit BMP)

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