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Highest legit stats rolled

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The best roll I ever got was a Ranger what netted me 96 pts.

However I was desperate to dual class a fighter to druid and kept at it until I had:

str: 18/00 (I would have taken anything)
dex 18
con 18
int 3
wis 18
chr 18

which is only 93 pts but for a human that is exceptional. I have found that Rangers, particularly half elf rangers get the best rolls but has anyone ever gotten a truly amazing roll. What was it?

Where does Baldur's Gate & Tales of the Sword Coast separate?

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I want to change my PCs alignment & I want to do it @ a defined point in the game.

So, where does BG end & Tales of the Sword Coast begin? My general assumption is that as long as my PC is on that direct story-line from Candlekeep to Nashkel to Beregost to Bandit Camp to Cloakwood to...killing Sarevok, then I am in BG. Everything else, Durlag's Tower, Xxart Village, Mutamin's Garden, etc. are 'Tales of the Sword Coast'? Am I correct? Do I have it backwards?

Same thing for BGII. What separates SoA from ToB?

Thanks. CT

Powergaming Party (playing the right way) BGEE/BG2EE (spoilers)

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There's a very informative thread below about making killer characters and how to produce the most effective party possible. As in any thread like this, there will never be complete agreement on "the best" party possible, but I am interested in what you guys all think.

The caveat here is I'd like to see what you think the best party is in BG1 and BG2 (EE), but playing the game "the right way"

By this, I mean, one protagonist/charname, and (up to) 5 official NPCs in each game. For instance, many people think a Kensai > Mage dual is the best protagonist possible, but who do you surround him with?

Please also include what weapons the characters will be using.

Let the powergaming begin! :P

Edit: since this is a thread determined to be played without mods, the characters all need to get by without killing each other (unless that's part of a funky strategy of yours!). No Keldorn and Viconia, for instance.

The cause of my restartitis...

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I have a problem...not sure how unique it is.

I've never been able to finish SoA.

Not because it got too difficult or anything, but I would just get to a point where I would decide that I'd rather try doing it differently. Some characters would make it further than others, but my longest run has only made it to the underdark so far.

Note that I definitely do not have similar issues with BG1. While a couple of runs have petered out in the middle, if I make it to the Friendly Arm Inn, I will typically finish the game with that character.

So, what's the deal? Do I just prefer low-level play? (sort of) Do I like the BG1 characters better? (not really) Do I find the BG1 story more compelling? (nope) I think it's because SoA pits two of my (strongly held) gaming philosophies against each other in what I fear may be an unresolvable conflict.

First, I like to have a certain degree of roleplaying with my characters. I want to have a good sense of what this character would think when presented by the various scenarios in the game. The better I formulate the concept for the character, the more I usually enjoy playing him/her. As part of this, I cannot play evil characters. Good/Neutral, Lawful/Chaotic - I can wrap my head around any of these and have fun playing the character. Playing evil characters just makes me feel like crap.

Second, I have strong completionist tendencies. I like to explore the various areas to (at least near) completion and see as much as I can of what the game has to offer. (In combination with my roleplaying, this tendency leads me to play characters like thieves, bards, or rangers more often than not.)

So, while these two traits mesh nearly perfectly in BG1 (you're on the run from who knows what, might as well get yourself lost in the woods for a while to throw off your pursuers while you gather your strength and gradually make the connections between your attackers and the problems plaguing the Sword Coast), they are at odds in SoA. This is entirely because of how one character is treated: Imoen.

The problem is that playing as a Good/Neutral aligned character, I cannot envision CHARNAME not caring deeply for their little sister (even before they find out, I always see CHARNAME thinking of her that way.) As such, CHARNAME would not sit around sidequesting in CH2/3 endlessly before going to her rescue. Might not leave immediately after collecting the necessary gold (need to gear up at least a bit before going to face Irenicus), but I can't fathom spending more than a month in game before heading to Spellhold. Which means that I can only finish around half of the major quests in CH2 before I leave, maybe a bit more if I limit my travel outside Athkatla. Compare that with BG1, where I can happily spend 6 months criss-crossing the countryside before heading to Baldur's Gate if I want, no big deal. (Hey, that note Gorion had on him did say that it was more difficult to hit a moving target...)

And after CHARNAME and Imoen have their souls taken, I can't imagine the party doing anything but chasing down Irenicus and Bohdi. If it was just CHARNAME, I could see doing a few sidequests as he/she learns to deal with the situation. But with Imoen portrayed as rapidly getting weaker, CHARNAME would see no choice but to track those bastards down as quickly as possible.

Which, of course, brings me into conflict with my completionist tendencies. While I completely recognize that Imoen is being used a plot device to provide a sense of urgency that is (mechanically) non-existent in the game, I can't help but roleplay my character's reaction to the situation. And since this provides a completely unsatisfactory feeling (as I realize how much I've missed out on by skipping all of those other quests, with their captivating little sub-plots, lovely XP, and kick-ass gear), my motivation to continue the game wanes, despite my anger towards Irenicus. And if I try to just forget about Imoen and complete more of the CH2 quests before going to Spellhold, my motivation to continue wanes as well, since I can only put off advancing the plot for so long before losing all sense for my character. But despite how Imoen is used (or misused as the case may be), I can't bring myself (or my CHARNAMEs) to dislike her.

So, is there any hope for me? Any of you roleplayers out there have any tips I can use, any ways of framing the situation that might help me keep my motivation in the face of this seemingly unsolvable conundrum?

Or should I just wait for IWD:EE to be released...

20th Discussion Special: What is the Single Most Awesome Moment in the Baldur's Gate Saga

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Not a poll this time, as I've been told that my polls were flawed (except for my Alignment one) and I've been told to lay off making polls.
So I want to know from you guys, what the greatest Baldur's Gate Moment (or moments) was for you.

Anything from Lines, to Random Encounters is acceptable. And I look forward to your opinions.

Favorite player character (Charname)?

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To preface this, apologies if this type of discussion has been done before (or to death, rather).

I was just wondering, what is everyone's favorite main character? This favoritism can stem from any number of reasons; I just want to know who they were, and why they were your favorite. From what I can gather, a lot of people have completed these games many, many times, and I just want to know which character stands above the rest.

To start off, my favorite character that I've created is Zaine, my human Shapeshifter. I've crafted a bit of a story for him (my own interpretation of the events leading up to and of BG1), and it's this extra aspect that makes him "jump" out of the game and into my mind, even when I'm not playing. He does not have excellent stats, and I definitely do not consider him a druid at all, but it's this uniqueness and that it's *his* story that really makes me care about him.

Anyway, that's (briefly) why Zaine is special to me, and I'd love to hear your stories, as well.

"Theft, robbery and occasional murder" or a short guide to Thieves (solo or in group)

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Who is this guide for: Players that are interested in Thieves, but have never tried one because they aren't as imposing as fighters or mages (on the first sight).
Or if you have chosen a Thief and are struggling with it or feeling inferior to the simple Barbarians on lower levels.

Who is this guide not for: Berserkers that want to just hack everything in sight into pieces. Even though Thieves are quite capable at fighting, they are not Warriors and can not whip out weapon GM and 4 attacks-per-round.
This whole guide is about the fact, that we don't need to.

NOTE:this is guide is mainly to how play with Thieves in BG and early in BG2. After you get later into BG2, you'll know it anyway.

General Thief tactics or "I am not a Fighter, but I'll still tear you a new one"
Thieves' biggest in fighting problem is their low attack-per-round (APR) value. Except for Thieves dual- or multi-classed with a Fighter or the Swashbuckler, you won't have more than 1 APR.
We make up for it via other means. Namely ranged or throwing weapons, usable items with charges, potions and traps. Especially flaming potions, also adding the 'Arson' to the list of crimes.
Remember, you can use one special action during a turn, be it casting a spell, chugging/throwing a potion or using a wand/item. Chain the actions.
Follow a backstab with a wand (of Missiles), a fireball (from "The one Gift Lost" necklace or a flaming oil flask) or a fire attack. (from the potion of Fire Breath or "Ring of Energy").
Swap weapons to a bow, move away and snipe the enemy. Mobility and strategy.
Another key is - preparation. Be Crazy Prepared. Scout ahead. Carefully place traps and then engage combat. Once your enemies turn against you, your traps will make them damn the day you were born.
Attack the mage first with a Dagger of Venom or poisoned weapon and watch him slowly die all the while being unable to cast. Because - let's face it - being a Thief is all about making those pesky air-headed egocentrics while like little kids.
When things go south, don't forget you can slip into shadows again if you are out of line of sight. Run behind a corner and wait for your pursuer. Or turn yourself invisible with a spell or potion and then stalk back for a kill.

A smart Thief prepares several traps near the enemies and prepares another chain of traps leading away from them. Opens with a backstab, continues with a fireball or magic missile.
If anything has survived your attack and traps, just lead them towards your other waiting traps. Take the enemy out for a walk thru valley of pain to their demise.
And if someone survives first 2 rounds and subsequent traps, they should be already near death anyway. If not, a well placed "Horror" from your Bhaalspawn powers spices things up well.


Soloing or running with NPCs
Baldur's Gate games are perfectly able to solo even on Hard difficulty. Soloing the games usually needs more preparation, careful traps setting and manoeuvring the fights, opening with a back-stab and then running towards your traps.
Subsequently sniping the enemy while running from him if he isn't dead already (so-called "kiting").
With a party, your Tief will be either a scout or a back-row archer that takes care of the traps and locks. Or a good fight-opener with massive backstabs.


Thief Attributes, Skills and weapons (aka "There's more to Thieving than just traps and locks")
ATTRIBUTES
Get as high Dexterity as you can. Period.
Strength is not really important, but if you plan to back-stab a lot or are a Swashbuckler (needs melee), get at least 16-17 Strength.
Constitution helps to get as high as 15 or 16. After 16, it stops being beneficial. The rest of the attributes is up to you.
I personally like to have a high Charisma and get above-average scores for Wisdom (Lore bonus).
SKILLS
OPEN LOCKS - important and good for everyone. Surprisingly enough, I was able to open almost all locks in the BGEE game with a score of 65-70.
FIND/DISARM TRAPS - important, but if you are not planning to go to Durlag's Tower, you can just soak the damage. (Plan B is automatically the party member with the highest HP pool)
HIDE IN SHADOWS/MOVE SILENTLY - Important for all stealthy types and back-stabbers. Less important for some multiclasses and Swashbucklers. To hide in shadows, both scores are averaged and taken into account. To further stay in shadows, only Move Silently is used, so it is more important to get MS up.
Keep in mind, that you will most probably get the Shadow Armour and the Worn Whispers(Boots of Shadow) that will help a huge lot.
SET TRAPS - an awesome skill that can turn a difficult battle into a stroll through a park. Bloody park, full of flesh and intestines hanging from the branches of the trees. Small blood pools here and there and brains splashed on the tree trunks...brains....where was I...yes! Easy.
PICK POCKETS - situationally awesome or completely impractical. There are few nice items you can nick, but it's better to spend your points elsewhere and use your fellow bard or another Thief to steal them.
DETECT ILLUSION - your True Sight that you can cast without casting. Not particularly important, but usable later in the saga.

NOTEs: Remember that for every +1 Dexterity, you will get +5% on each skill except Detect Illusion. As you can get +1 Tome in BGEE and +1 Dex Kiel's Buckler, you can get your skills to 90% and by the time you will need them to be that high, you will have that Tome and perhaps even the Buckler.
It is entirely possible to have the Kiel's buckler by in case a particular trap or a chest won't yield and equip it to get +5% that might make the difference.
Also, there are potions that can raise your skills for a while. Needed only for those few pesky traps or locks that need high levels.
Nifty, especially for the kits that get only 15/20% per level.


Melee Weapons
Daggers are a nice hybrid for starters, as one proficiency point will make you able to wield a good starting weapon (you can get a magical +1 Dagger within first 5 minutes in both BG and BG2)
Later on, Long Swords are common, cheap, easily to get and can back-stab. Short Swords are also okay. They get earlier with higher +Thac0 enchantments and that's what we need. However mostly, you are better off with Long Swords or Scimitars.
Some people like to wield (and back-stab with) Quarterstaves...if you like.
On first levels, you can use a buckler to get a lower AC, later on it's better to be able to swap between a melee weapon and Shortbow so Single Weapon proficiency takes over (also, makes you crit more).

Ranged Weapons
While Crossbows can be good, their APR is usually only 1 (except for the Army Scythe), so you are better off with Short Bows (2APR or better).
For poisoners, also Throwing Daggers and Darts because they have higher APR and can deliver more poison. Regrettably, there are no magical Throwing Daggers in BGEE, but in BG2EE, you can get your hands on a very good +2 (2d4) returning dagger (Bridge District), If you know where to look.


KITS and their description + usual tactics to employ.
Simple Thief
Lots of skill points to distribute, best with a ShortBow, avoid melee. Sincerely - if you want to play a Thief, pick a kit.

Assassin
The back-stabber and poisoner.
Your greatest ability is not your insane backstab modifier. It's the poison weapon skill. Especially on lower levels - this can win group fights alone by it's awesomeness.
Poisoning your weapon works best with high APR weapons. So shortbows or darts. Throwing daggers work too, but there aren't any magical ones in BGEE, so rather use the bows. In BG2, there are some good throwing daggers, so this becomes useful again.
Combining Weapon poison and Arrows of Biting is a nasty combo.
The innate +1Thac0 bonus is great, but the "only 15% to thieving skills per level" hurts a lot. Usually, it needs you to focus on few skills and have another Thief to take care of the rest.
Starts getting better at levels 10+.

Bounty Hunter
Traps, traps and even more traps.
Except for back-stabbing, not a front-line fighter. Best used with a ShortBow or Throwing Daggers, sniping his/her prey and luring them towards traps. Good tactic is to scout ahead while stalking and set up traps just out of line of waiting baddies.
Use your special traps, along with the normal ones-learn what your special trap does according to the level you are on. Slowing a dangerous melee enemy is priceless.

Shadow Dancer
Your back-stabbing expert.
Back-stab, disappear, stalk, back-stab, vanish, stalk...lather rinse repeat. Low skill points per level makes him/her a lousy Thief (needs stealth to amount to anything in battle, which leaves less points for locks or traps).
Niche class that needs a huge lot of micro-management. Can't put down traps, which can makes soloing a bit more difficult.

Swashbuckler
Almost a Fighter-Thief with ultra-fast levelling.
No back-stab means you probably won't need to spend many points into stalking. Unless you use your Swashbuckler as a scout. 25% to Thief Skills per level means you will have plenty of points to put into them and you can focus on more skills at once.
A Swashbuckler needs less micro-management than other Thieves and can just act as another Fighter-type. With the added bonus of being also a Thief. Who needs back-stab, when we have traps? (Well, a back-stab would be great, but...)
They can get 3 pips in dual-wielding, so you should use it (even though you won't have enough proficiency pips until lvl 12)
Preferred weapons are Scimitars, Long Swords and perhaps Daggers. (in BG2EE, get hold of the +2 Scimitar or Short Sword that give you +1 APR)
The innate bonuses to +hit/+dmg and -AC won't do much till level 10 and the Swashbuckler is not as viable front-liner during most of BGEE, but he/she start being considerably more dangerous later on levels 15+.
NOTE: BGEE-start proficiencies: It's better to put two pips into your preferred weapon (to get the +THAC0 bonus) and use a buckler for a while. Buckley's Buckler is a good candidate for start. Second pip should go to the Two-weapons proficiency, but stick to the buckler.
Later in the game, when you get your second pip in dual-wielding, you can start using two weapons. The second weapon will have a -4 Thac0 penalty, but main hand won't.

Fighter-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Whether you dual- or multi-class, this is a strong Thief, that can also fight. Dualling is done from F to T. Not vice-versa.
In BGEE, you can get to lvl 7 of Fighter and still get to lvl 8 with the Thief to reactivate your Fighter levels.
Dualling is best done on levels 7 (in BGEE), 10 (start of BG2EE) or at lvl 13 (Fighter gets another 1/2 APR on lvl 13).
Multiclasses are usually strong enough to kill everyone anyway as a Fighter and the Thief is more of an utility-side or back-stabbing.
This sort of Thief is easier to play than the pure thief or kits.

Cleric-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Quite unusual combination and not recommended to be used for soloing, this setup is focused on party utility, because this Thief can not fight as well, nor he/she can use any of the sharp weapons for backstabbing.
Well, save the staffs, but I have mentioned the idiocy of sneaking with a 2m/6ft pole earlier. Expect to be spending most of your time looking for traps, opening locks and casting spells.
If you want to fight, opt for dual-classing from a Swashbuckler at lvl 10 and liberal use of Draw Upon Holy Might. Do expect to have some THAC0 problems.

Mage-Thief (dual- or multiclass)
Oh yes, the usual sneaky caster. This class combo (along with F/M/T) is one of the most versatile characters ever, having the powerful Thief abilities and some reality-bending magic under his/her hood.

Useful items
BGEE - Dagger of Venom, "Worn Whispers" Boots, Shadow Armour. + small trinkets like "The one gift lost" (= Fireball necklace), Sandthief's Ring
BG2EE - any good weapon, like the 3APR Shortbow, +2 returning Throwing Dagger, Grandmaster's Armour, speed weapons, Mercykiller's Ring...it just gets better and better.
There's one particular interesting piece of equipment to be bought in Copper Coronet = a Scimitar for Monks with 2APR and great stats. Can't use it yet, but you can - later with UAI.

BG2EE and ToB strategy and further development
In BG2, you will get more skill points, which starts making even the Assassin a viable Thief. Keep using traps and tactics to your advantage.
Later, in ToB, you will meet some enemies, that are immune to back-stab. Kill them the old-fashioned way then.
With high-level traps, even the Dragons will tremble. But be wary - the Time Stop snare is a double-edged sword.
Some enemies are resistant to it and having your Thief to solo a beefcake boss is not what passes for a nice Saturday evening.


I hope this was helpful to those that wondered about proper thievery...

Code of honor

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If you are someone who knows pretty much where everything is and how to get it in the most efficient way, it is often too easy to play through this game. To offset this, you may choose to play with lawful characters and avoid all exploits and thievery.

I once tried playing as a speed-rush character and refused to take anything from chests that was not quest related but that didn't work out.

I am looking for a solid challenge by playing a Lawful character and abiding by various ethical rules such as No pickpocketing from stores or people and/or no stealing from people's homes.

Does anyone have any other ideas as far as modifying your gameplay and choices to make the game more of a challenge and less of a 'Monty Haul'?

Looking for help with a few portraits

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I was wondering if there are anyone out there with some photoshop skills who could help me with 2-3 portraits? It is mostly alteration of the original portraits.

Miscellaneous stuff

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Do I have to keep carrying miscellaneous things from completed quests like journals or keys and so on? I haven't found anywhere to buy a bag of holding, so it's an issue. Or if you can tell me where to buy a bag of holding . . .

simple cure for restartitis

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There is a simple cure for restartitis:

- don't adjust (+/-) ability scores at character generation (i.e. your character *will* have flaws; re-roll if you must, just don't adjust)
- play no-reload (preferably with SCS AI)

Every run will keep you at the edge of your seat.
(And you *will* restart many times due to death.)
When (if!) you ever finish, you will feel two inches taller.

[I recently finished BGEE for the first time -- and moved on to BG2EE with my Fighter/Mage. It was my 8th attempt with EE version. The satisfaction is incomparable!]

Runehammer +5 - why isn't it a "speed weapon"?

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It has a speed factor of 0.

I only mention this because when I asked (many, many moons ago) why Kundane added an extra attack, I was told it was because of its speed factorof 0.

thanks!

Rasaad the last Airbender

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or The characters and what inspired their designs

I always suspected that Rasaad was the product of someone at Overhaul being very fond of Nickelodeon's Avatar.

Who or what do you guys think where the inspirations for the different characters?
It would of course be very nice to hear some official statements by the devs ~

Epiphany: Neera > Edwin

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Unless the bhallspawn is a wild mage.

Not until she starts getting access to the higher level spells, but when she does - and you start casting horrid wilting as a level 1 spell while being protected by greater chaos shield... Edwin just cries in the corner.

Portraits for the enhanced editions?

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Hey!

As many of you have noticed, there arn't that many portrait in the original game for Baldur's Gate 1 and 2: EE.

Do you know if there're any good sites which contains portraits for the enhanced games? I always play wizardly characters, hence I'm intressted in those kind of portraits.

Regards

Critiquing The EEs: A Pure Story Perspective 1/6

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Since so much has been written about BG2:EE's poor technical state (almost 400 confirmed bugs at last count), I'd like to shift the focus away from that and look at Beamdog's contribution to the games purely on the creative level, figure out what works and what doesn't, and maybe generate some discussion about that.

To do that, I'd like to talk about Rasaad yn Bashir, Neera, Dorn il-Khan, Baeloth Barrityll, Hexxat and Wilson as characters, as storylines, and try to highlight problem spots that - much like gameplay bugs - could potentially be smoothed over and patched.

For this particular installment, we'll be talking about:

Dorn il-Khan

Of the four main additions to the cast (Baeloth and Wilson are, after all, easter eggs), Dorn is, at a glance, the simplest to understand.

What we need to recall, prior to his introduction, is that BG has a very curious approach to representing alignment in-game. On the one hand, the player is almost always penalized for choosing Evil actions over Good: you'll get less XP, less gold, less rewards. This would seem to suggest that the game is not-so-subtly steering you away from actually RPing an Evil character... except that the Evil NPCs are (with some exceptions) among the most powerful ones you'll find. No arcane caster, not even the PC, can match Edwin's Red Wizard bonuses; no cleric has Viconia's high dexterity and innate magic resistance; Shar-Teel can be automatically dual-classed into a very dangerous thief; Korgan's physical strength is exceeded only by Sarevok in ToB.

But while you have more than enough characters for a full party in BG1, BG2 reduces you to three characters in SoA and one more in ToB. And then we have Dorn. Mechanically, it's clear that he's meant to serve as a champion in the mold of Ajantis, Keldorn and Minsc; and, in keeping with the BG tradition, he's far more powerful than his Good counterparts: he can poison greatswords, debuff enemies, drain health... all that and the 19 STR of a half-orc to boot, plus the immunities of the new blackguard kit.

Dorn's introduction in BG1 is a clever bit of misdirection, because your first assumption is that he's just like any other NPC: you find him, you talk to him, you recruit him. But Dorn is in the middle of his own quest, and won't give you the time of day. (He's also voiced by Gord Marriott, who, it must be said, does an absolutely flawless job.)

Now, players may certainly be stumped at this point, since the game doesn't actually provide any hint as to what's meant to happen: a random encounter near Nashkel will reintroduce Dorn properly, and allow you to recruit him. This encounter also sets up Dorn's questline, hunting down a quartet of former companions who left him to die in Luskan.

Here's where we find our first major problem: this encounter allows Dorn to cross two names off his list, cutting his storyline in half before it even begins. Unlike Rasaad and Neera, Dorn's quest doesn't come with any new locations at all: you'll find Kryll in the Gibberling Mountains, and ringleader Simmeon just outside Baldur's Gate. By taking out both Senjak and Dorothea in that first initial encounter, you can't help feeling like the plotline's being fast-tracked.

This sense of "moving too quickly" recurs with the romance subplot - all EE characters can initiate a "prelude" romance that's meant to build into the second game (despite the fact that, at the time of writing, BG2:EE doesn't seem to recognize romance variables set in BG:EE). We should, at this point, recall that a major point of contention with Dorn at the time the character debuted was that he could romance both male and female characters - and while this has spawned long and often-torturous discussions both on this forum and elsewhere, suffice to say that I give Beamdog much credit for taking quite possibly the least-expected - and therefore least-explored - route.

The discrepancy between Dorn, Neera and Rasaad comes up again here, as Dorn's romance concludes on such an abrupt and vague note that many players were left uncertain as to whether they'd actually seen it through to the end. One can, of course, make the argument that Dorn's characterization and the details of his storyline do (and should) set him apart from the conventional approach to romance... but that's probably something that could have been clarified in-game.

Still, for the character that Dorn is designed to be - the one who revels in Evil-with-a-capital-E - it's fair enough to say that he doesn't need pathos or moral ambivalence. Neither does Korgan, after all.

In BG2:EE, after being ordered by his demon patron Ur-Gothoz to pursue more and more dangerous missions, Dorn is approached by a mystery woman named Azothet, who claims she can help him escape his master's chains. One of the nice things about the set-up to this scenario is the player's ability to influence how Dorn carries out Ur-Gothoz's missions: there are several options, meant to conform to the player's own idea of what constitutes Evil. Do you slaughter an entire wedding party, or just take out your target? Do you trick a priest into helping you, or cut him apart? Dorn skirts the edge of being difficult to control, and unlike any other NPC, you can sometimes feel that you have to be careful what you say to him, because the wrong word could cause him to mutiny. Which is, again, perfectly in line with who he is.

Those small choices also play out during the new location assigned to Dorn's quest: Resurrection Gorge. Do you sacrifice a party member to complete a ritual? Do you raise a druid only to cut him down yet again? And then, of course, we get the reveal, and a classic roleplaying choice: do you encourage Dorn to drop his tanar'ri master Ur-Gothoz for the baatezu Azothet, who promises to be a more considerate patron? Do you stick with the demon you know? Or do you take out both would-be patrons, and cause Dorn to lose his blackguard powers altogether?

Unfortunately, the build-up to this choice is a bit flawed. While the player is able to openly distrust Azothet at every opportunity, the reality is that you have very little reason to turn on her until she reveals her true form. Even if she is lying about some or all of what she's told Dorn, Ur-Gothoz is comparatively worse in every way.

Fun bit of trivia: the cambions who emerge to aid Simmeon in BG:EE are named "Thralls of Azothet". In other words, Ur-Gothoz's rival was responsible for empowering Dorn's mortal enemy. This feels like information the player (and Dorn) should have been given before reaching the final area of Resurrection Gorge: when you face that choice of binding either Ur-Gothoz or Azothet, you should know that you're choosing between a demon that openly dislikes you and a mystery woman who has, in the very recent past, directly worked against you. Does that affect your choice? It should.

(As an aside: it's very strange that Dorn receives an item reward only if he sides with Ur-Gothoz against Azothet, and yet his default state in ToB is being Azothet's blackguard - surely she would have given him a different item to compensate?)

Dorn's BG2:EE romance may be abbreviated in comparison to, say, Viconia, but it manages to do a few interesting things that are unique even when taken in the context of BioWare's present-day efforts. There's a whole separate discussion to be had regarding the awful way BG2 originally handled the female love interests - you have to refuse intimacy with Aerie when the subject first comes up in order to continue the romance, and she'll get pregnant the first time you do it; Viconia is on the other end of the spectrum, with some very awkward faux-dominatrix nonsense (and you can, of course, reach such heights of sexual gratification that her alignment changes).

Dorn follows a much less complicated route: he likes sex, and given the life he leads, he'll take his kicks where he can get them. This leads to an amusingly twisted take on Aerie's romance, with an impromptu wedding ceremony that involves bloodletting and promises of divine power. Again, it's not deep, but it's as crazy and over the top as an Evil romance should be.

The wheels come off in ToB, though, for two reasons. While Dorn's quest in Lunia is indeed epic, and again gives the player some interesting choices when it comes to the Scroll of Retribution, a problem emerges with the blackguard-exclusive sidequest to corrupt the Holy Tree. Namely, it contradicts the conclusion of the Resurrection Gorge quest. No matter which patron you choose, that patron will claim that Dorn is too valuable an agent to throw away on pointless suicide missions. And yet both Ur-Gothoz and Azothet will order Dorn to defile a tree in Lunia itself, surrounded by planetars and silver dragons and whatnot, for absolutely no reason. There's no explanation, there's no profit or gain, it's back to where the character began with "Do this thing because I told you to".

The second - and arguably most problematic - issue for Dorn in ToB is his epilogues. Both the default and romanced endings are perfectly logical extrapolations of his characterization: on his own, he pays the price for his many, many crimes; a romance may start out with the PC and Dorn as partners-in-crime, but it's an inherently unstable pairing that inevitably ends badly. So far, so good, despite the fact that Mercy Whitedove should have been introduced at some point in Dorn's storyline, if only to foreshadow where they're heading. The name will mean absolutely nothing to anyone who doesn't play the Black Pits.

The trouble is this: ToB is designed in such a way that if a character chooses to become a god at the very end, the epilogue for their love interest defaults to the non-romanced epilogue. So if you have a child with Aerie, and then choose ascension, her ending won't mention the baby at all. And if you romance Dorn, and explicitly promise to share power with him... he still ends up with the default ending. I don't know if this is a technical limitation, but it's a false choice in which the player is led to believe they're selecting a specific course of action, when in fact all roads lead to one outcome. And this won't be the first time that particular mistake comes up with the EEs.

The same becomes retrospectively true of Dorn's SoA quest: he gets the same ending whether he's a blackguard or free of his patrons. Why, then, would players choose to free him at all, given that it amounts to a net loss (Dorn loses his blackguard powers, the Tree sidequest and any blackguard-specific equipment that may be lying around)? What's the point of offering us a choice if nothing we choose makes a difference? It's baffling that this is the case, given how many smaller choices are woven into Dorn's storyline from the word go, all the different things you can do to complete his objectives.

Still, while the unsatisfying conclusion detracts from Dorn's appeal on the whole, the character still has a lot going for him: a dynamic storyline, top-notch voice acting, an impressive array of abilities, and some very entertaining exchanges with original and EE characters (Dorn, Sarevok and Korgan vowing to lay waste to the next tavern they visit is the sort of thing that makes Baldur's Gate great).

Next time, I'll tackle undoubtedly the most controversial character in the Enhanced Editions: the vampire thief Hexxat.

The no reload challenge (spoiler warning)

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One of the most fun thing to do in BG is to play with no reload.

The point of the thread is for you to describe your attempts (failed or successful)

I'll start with mine (i just list the significative attempts, not the ones in which i died after 5 minutes). All these playthrough were on core rules difficulty (save for leveling, to get max hp)

- Fighter/mage/thief. Solo. Died in baldur's gate (level 5/5/6) from the mages upstairs of the magical shop (forgot their were casting horror...)
- Berserker. Solo. Died at level 6 from an ankheg, ambushing me while resting
- Inquisitor. In group of 4 (imoen, minsc, viconia). Still in progress (in cloakwoods)
- Berserker / mage (dual 7/8). Solo. Sill in progress (in catacombs at candlekeep). I should succeed it with this one (unless i do something dumb), as he is now 7/8 and almost unkillable (berserker kit is awesome)

My next try will be a solo sorcerer.

Some advices for those who want to try it :
- i find solo play easier than group play (as defense is paramount in no reload, and much easier to get on one character than on 6)
- very good knowledge of the game is necessary.
- when playing solo, never roll to save against a deadly effect (paralysis, horror, charm....) -> you need to get immunities (potions, items, abilities,spells) or you will die.
- always have an invisibility potion ready, as a panic button






A Witcher-like character

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Hello ladies and gents. I'm a big fan of the Witcher stories, novels, and games. I think the author and the game developers do a great job of not only storytelling, but of the lore of witchers themselves.

Those of you that are familiar with the witcher, what are your thoughts on a class/kit that resembles a witcher's skillset? For example, one that jumps to mind for me is the Blade. The blade has combat prowess, can cast arcane spells but not as much as a pure mage, and is very adaptable.

What do you guys think?

Just a question

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I have done both BG 1 and 2 ee/ And am looking forward to ice wind dale as that is my own personal favorite. My question is that whoever developed both of the Baldur's Gates and the Ice wind dales and then Neverwinter night 1and2.....did they create any other games?

Critiquing The EEs: A Pure Story Perspective 3/6

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Welcome to Part 3 of a critical look at Beamdog’s creative contributions to Baldur’s Gate. We’re going to analyze and discuss the Enhanced Edition characters and their storylines, and try to highlight problem spots that - much like gameplay bugs - could potentially be smoothed over and patched.

This is not the place for statements of blind support or blind hatred of Beamdog. If that’s all you have to contribute to the conversation, please take your comments elsewhere.

Having covered the half-orc blackguard Dorn il-Khan and the vampire thief Hexxat, today we’ll be talking about:

Rasaad yn Bashir

Let me start by saying this: he’s bald! For the first time a character with a bald portrait actually has a bald paper doll to match. It’s a small detail, but definitely something worth pointing out (let’s hope they get around to doing the same for Minsc and Sarevok someday).

Last time, I came to the conclusion that Hexxat is the most problematic and inconsistent of the Enhanced NPCs – but also that her design and storyline were determined, at least in part, by the role she was required to play within Team Evil. Rasaad is under no such constraints: while he does fill an existing gap in the roster (he’s the first monk party member), the game already had seven Good NPCs (nine if you count the converted Anomen and Sarevok). This may explain why there’s a case to be made for Rasaad being the best-written of the four new characters.

We first encounter Rasaad in BG:EE, after arriving in Nashkel. Unlike Dorn and Hexxat, there are no tricks, no need to jump through hoops: he's a Sun Soul Monk, he worships Selune, he's Lawful Good to the core. Rasaad starts off by offering to explain his faith to you; this could have come off as tedious, but it works for two rather clever reasons. First, any discussion of Sun Soul beliefs tends to tie back into Rasaad’s own backstory: his childhood in Calimshan, his training with the Order, the tragic death of his older brother Gamaz. Instead of burying you with lore you could’ve just as easily read in a book, the exposition works in such a way that you come out of each exchange knowing more about Rasaad than you did before.

The other reason this works is because, even as he lays out the tenets of his faith in later dialogues, he openly admits that he doesn’t always act in accordance with those tenets. This conflict is, in fact, the heart of Rasaad’s storyline, and while he isn’t quite at a breaking point yet (that will come later) it serves to add another layer to his personality. You get to see the contrast between what he believes and what he wants.

I should note here that after his wooden performance in the Mass Effect games, Mark Meer really threw me for a loop as Rasaad. It’s not his best performance in the game – we’ll get to that later – but he manages to sell the character’s anger, guilt and turmoil very convincingly.

The BG:EE portion of Rasaad's questline is fairly straightforward: after a series of ambushes by Dark Moon Monks (sworn enemies of the Sun Soul), Rasaad leads the player to the Cloud Peaks, where – somewhat predictably – the cult leader turns out to be his older brother Gamaz. This is telegraphed fairly early in the story, where Rasaad recalls his brother’s death and mentions that he never found the body.

But while Gamaz’s presence may not come as a shock, his motivations certainly do: he believes that when they were training in the Order together, Rasaad held back, allowing Gamaz to appear the superior of the two. And Rasaad admits it. This actually works as a twist, because you expect Sharrans to lie through their teeth, but Gamaz has the facts right – he just misinterpreted Rasaad’s intentions. After a chase that allows a bit more dialogue between the brothers, you’re finally forced to put the elder Bashir brother down, with a loose end to pursue in the next game: Gamaz's master is revealed to be Alorgoth.

We find Rasaad again in Athkatla, in the early part of BG2:EE. It’s immediately apparent that a lot has changed, as the introductory cutscene has him being attacked by fellow members of the Sun Soul. Once you re-recruit him, he reveals that there’s a new cult in town, the Twofold Trust, which is threatening to destabilize both the Sun Soul and the Dark Moon. This cult believes that Selune and Shar are actually different aspects of the same goddess (which certainly isn't the craziest idea put forth in the D&D cosmology). Rasaad plans to infiltrate the cult, as he believes its leader, Collus Darathon, is in fact Alorgoth himself.

Now, there's a bit of a plothole here, and it's one the player can explicitly point out on more than one occasion: Rasaad has never seen Darathon, and high-ranking Dark Moon defectors insist he and Alorgoth are two completely different people. And yet his conviction that Darathon is Alorgoth never wavers, despite the lack of any insight as to why he's so sure. Obviously, the plot requires Rasaad to pursue Darathon (rather than, say, the actual Dark Moon itself) but can't quite come up with a convincing reason for us to believe him.

There's also a very strange aside that never seems to gel with the rest of the storyline: an encounter with the Tears of Selune reveals that Rasaad has been framed for murder, in a way that's very clearly and specifically targeting him. Alorgoth never takes direct responsibility for this, and it doesn't come up again until the very end of the SoA quest - and even then, it's incidental (we'll get to that in a bit). It feels more like an artifact from cut content than an aspect of the existing narrative, especially since you can talk your way out of that encounter.

Just as we saw in BG:EE, investigating the Twofold and meeting the many converts who’ve abandoned both Shar and Selune feeds back into Rasaad’s ongoing inner struggle, which finally hits its breaking point – the scene in which he has to recite the Twofold creed is a powerful moment, as he’s forcing himself to speak heresy for the sake of revenge.

This is also the point where I should mention the player's active hand in shaping Rasaad's path: you can push him towards abandoning the Sun Soul and embracing the Twofold, or staying true to his beliefs; you can go berserk in the Temple, or navigate its trials to successfully infiltrate the cult. These options have an impact that isn't immediately apparent, but you will see Rasaad change in accordance with the course you're persuading him to take.

Naturally, Rasaad turns out to have been right all along. Darathon is Alorgoth, who leads a Dark Moon attack on the Twofold Temple. After a climactic battle, Alorgoth escapes, leaving Rasaad with a choice: to join the Trust and help them rebuild, or return to his Order and try to clear his name (this is where the frame job the Tears mentioned comes back into play, though the player will never have an opportunity to help). There's another awkward bit where, if he chooses to stay with the Trust, Rasaad will actually leave the party... only to join up again the next time you ask. It might have been better to keep him - or at least this version of him - away for the remainder of SoA, to create an immediate difference between Twofold-Rasaad and Sun Soul-Rasaad.

In fact, what we have here is the inverse of Dorn's scenario, where choosing between a patron or freedom is purely mechanical with no story consequences. Here, whatever decision you help Rasaad make ultimately determines his fate, but there are no gameplay reflections of that choice: no alignment change, no loss of Sun Soul powers. (Though I suppose one can argue that as Rasaad's powers aren't necessarily divine in nature, he should be able to keep them even if he no longer believes in the Sun Soul way.)

Let’s take a moment to discuss Rasaad’s romance. To understand why it works as well as it does, we should bear in mind that in the original game, the only love interest for a female PC was Anomen Delryn, a deeply divisive and problematic character (one of his earliest banters has him expressing doubt that a woman could have done the things attributed to the player). While Anomen's personality is largely determined by the outcome of his own quest, he starts off being rather abrasive; not so with Rasaad, whose dialogue is sweet without being saccharine. He gets easily flustered when you flirt with him, he’s extremely vulnerable to teasing, and it can be very entertaining to see him tripping over himself. The fact that he’s so much less confident than Anomen actually makes him more appealing.

That said, there's one particular scene I want to draw attention to: the abduction in chapter 6. As I’m sure you all know, this is a scripted event in which your love interest – Anomen, Jaheira, Aerie or Viconia – is kidnapped by Bodhi and turned into a vampire. It’s an additional wrinkle in the romance storyline, and one that actually works quite well as a dramatic uptick.

For the EE characters, Beamdog went with a bit of a twist: they manage to elude Bodhi’s grasp. I love that – it’s an unexpected surprise even for veteran players - but some justifications work better than others. Neera instinctively wild-surges herself away: acceptable. Hexxat is already a vampire and can’t be swayed to Bodhi’s side: acceptable. Dorn’s patron is unwilling to give him up: acceptable (though a free Dorn is simply "stronger than [Bodhi] thought", which rings rather hollow – this could have been another opportunity to differentiate between blackguard and fallen blackguard).

Rasaad, however, uses his Sun Soul powers to scare Bodhi off. And that, in itself, doesn’t strike me as especially convincing. Three of the four original love interests were high-level clerics - Viconia in particular can probably make vampires explode at will by this point. The other EE characters can avoid being taken because of what they are, not what they can do; Rasaad probably should have been taken and turned.

ToB doesn’t immediately deal with the personal aftermath of the events at the Twofold Temple; instead, a Sharran ambush gives Rasaad one last chance to take down his nemesis, chasing him through a dwarven stronghold and into the Plane of Shadows. We learn the full extent of Alorgoth’s rather brilliant plan: by setting up this false cult, he has not only weakened the Sun Soul, but rooted out the weakest of the Dark Moon as well.

Unfortunately, this climactic showdown hits an immediate speedbump, and it's a problem that factors into Hexxat's and Neera's storylines as well: the party is facing a canonical D&D character. For Hexxat, any possibility of turning against L is rendered moot when his true identity is revealed; Neera’s "guest star" will be a point of discussion next time; and here, Rasaad is fighting a character who is simply too important to be killed off. There's no way he can fulfill his goal, no way he can actually avenge Gamaz.

Instead, the player is confronted with the same choice repeatedly: stick with Rasaad, or let him go. This actually comes up three times in a very short span, which may be a bit much considering it's the same kind of false choice we saw with Hexxat's ToB scenario: if you leave Rasaad to his own devices, he's gone and his storyline ends. If you stick with him, and pull him back from the brink, he stays and his storyline ends. There's no real weight to the decision because hanging onto Rasaad doesn't cost you anything, while abandoning him costs you his place in your party. (Imagine if you lost another party member - permanently - if you failed to get Rasaad back in time? If that was the price for indulging his vengeance? That would be a much tougher call for the player to make, because the choice would matter.)

In any event, assuming Rasaad survives the final confrontation, he can end the game in one of three states: loyal to the Sun Soul, leading the Twofold Trust, or in a romance (his last plea for a romanced player to abandon ascension is truly excellent, aided in no small part by Meer's voice acting). And there's an epilogue for all three possibilities. Even taking into account the awkward pacing (ToB doesn't actually have any impact on Rasaad's fate unless he dies, since the variables that determine his epilogue are set in SoA), there's no question that this is the story/roleplaying reward the player has earned for guiding Rasaad through his crisis.

Overall, Rasaad’s storyline is neatly structured, with his BG:EE quest leading to SoA (through the death of Gamaz and the foreshadowing of Alorgoth), and from there to ToB (with that last escalating battle in the Plane of Shadows). It’s solid from start to finish, never failing in its attempts to make Rasaad sympathetic, and demonstrates Beamdog's writing at its best.

Next time, it’s Mages Gone Wild with Neera!
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