So, the general population is pretty much decided that when it's cleric on mage, the mage is going to win.
So what about Mage on Mage?
Who in your mind is the one true victor of magery? Is it dual-class Kensai -> Mage? Pure Sorcerer? Wild Mage -> Thief? Bard? Illusionist/Cleric?
Stage 1:
Create your contender.
Rules:
All participants are at the 8,000,000 Exp cap.
Assume all participants share the following stats before equipment and racial modifiers before equipment:
Strength: 20, Dexterity: 20, Constitution: 20, Intelligence: 20, Wisdom: 22, Charisma: 20. Elves get +1 Dex, -1 Con and so on.
No permanent bonuses beyond those granted by Race, Class or Kit (No DoMT permanent mind shield, no Hell Trials MR, no Slayer form ability and so on).
Your choice of proficiencies.
Your choice of thief skills.
Your choice of spells known (if you're a non-sorcerer, I assume "all of them").
Your choice of HLAs.
Your choice of equipment from BG2 to ToB, with mild constraints:
- Unless it's in a quickslot or equipped, it's unusable during a confrontation.
- If quickslot items are abused, then I'll suggest limitations for how many scrolls/potions etc may be added, since scroll-wars isn't really indicative of any particular class ability.
- Feel free to use Drow Equipment if you want.
A few mild "no cheese" limitations
- Your mislead clone is always close enough to target to be seen.
- You may equip your Staff of the Magi once at the beginning of combat, not alternate it to instantly disappear, - Thieves can hide at the beginning, and may only re-hide if they have some way of eluding their enemy, or if they're Shadowdancers.
- You probably know when you're trying something cheesy.
- No Quantum Spell-lists, if you're not a Sorcerer, then you pick your spells ahead of time and they have to apply to all the conflicts. If you're a sorcerer, your spells known is a defined quantity.
- To eliminate Random, Wild Mages may not use Nahal's. In return they are assumed not to surge.
- No Wishing. Limited Wish is fine for repeatable uses only.
The contenders you make can be faced off against all other contenders.
Stage 2:
Duel!
Combat occurs in an arena area. There is a single, sight obscuring pillar in the centre of the arena.
Both participants are fully rested before being transported to the arena.
Both participants have the chance to cast one spell before being transported to the arena.
Assume both are controlled by equally intelligent, experienced players.
There is no time limit, and no escape.
Your goal is to demonstrate that your contender can reliably handle their opponents.
If it comes down to "whoever casts Timestop first", "whoever fails their save first", or anything particularly random, it's a draw.
Likewise, any situation where you have a questionable advantage over your opponent (i.e. Fighter/Mage getting into melee against a Kensai -> Mage) is assumed to be a draw.
If there's a trick your equipment/class/spell choice can bring up that is demonstrably pretty well uncounterable by your opponent, that's considered a flawless victory.
Being able to reliably place yourself into a situation where you have a significant advantage over the opponent (a Kensai -> Mage getting into Improved Hasted melee combat with a pure Mage, a significantly high MR mage getting into a spell vs spell match against a low MR mage, a Gnome getting into a Save or Die battle with a non-Gnome, a Pure Mage getting into a Dispel battle with a Multiclass mage) is considered a victory.
If someone can demonstrate something you've overlooked or neglected to account for, it's your responsibility to account for it.
Stage 3:
Daily life.
For bonus points, how does your character choice perform in a party role? Can they handle the rigours of day-to-day adventuring in a balanced party? Do they even need a party?
The overall winner over the most possible opponents gets to ascend to be the new "God(dess) of Murder Magic", the losers get to weep and wail and presumably plan to change to whichever class/loadout the winner used.
So what about Mage on Mage?
Who in your mind is the one true victor of magery? Is it dual-class Kensai -> Mage? Pure Sorcerer? Wild Mage -> Thief? Bard? Illusionist/Cleric?
Stage 1:
Create your contender.
Rules:
All participants are at the 8,000,000 Exp cap.
Assume all participants share the following stats before equipment and racial modifiers before equipment:
Strength: 20, Dexterity: 20, Constitution: 20, Intelligence: 20, Wisdom: 22, Charisma: 20. Elves get +1 Dex, -1 Con and so on.
No permanent bonuses beyond those granted by Race, Class or Kit (No DoMT permanent mind shield, no Hell Trials MR, no Slayer form ability and so on).
Your choice of proficiencies.
Your choice of thief skills.
Your choice of spells known (if you're a non-sorcerer, I assume "all of them").
Your choice of HLAs.
Your choice of equipment from BG2 to ToB, with mild constraints:
- Unless it's in a quickslot or equipped, it's unusable during a confrontation.
- If quickslot items are abused, then I'll suggest limitations for how many scrolls/potions etc may be added, since scroll-wars isn't really indicative of any particular class ability.
- Feel free to use Drow Equipment if you want.
A few mild "no cheese" limitations
- Your mislead clone is always close enough to target to be seen.
- You may equip your Staff of the Magi once at the beginning of combat, not alternate it to instantly disappear, - Thieves can hide at the beginning, and may only re-hide if they have some way of eluding their enemy, or if they're Shadowdancers.
- You probably know when you're trying something cheesy.
- No Quantum Spell-lists, if you're not a Sorcerer, then you pick your spells ahead of time and they have to apply to all the conflicts. If you're a sorcerer, your spells known is a defined quantity.
- To eliminate Random, Wild Mages may not use Nahal's. In return they are assumed not to surge.
- No Wishing. Limited Wish is fine for repeatable uses only.
The contenders you make can be faced off against all other contenders.
Stage 2:
Duel!
Combat occurs in an arena area. There is a single, sight obscuring pillar in the centre of the arena.
Both participants are fully rested before being transported to the arena.
Both participants have the chance to cast one spell before being transported to the arena.
Assume both are controlled by equally intelligent, experienced players.
There is no time limit, and no escape.
Your goal is to demonstrate that your contender can reliably handle their opponents.
If it comes down to "whoever casts Timestop first", "whoever fails their save first", or anything particularly random, it's a draw.
Likewise, any situation where you have a questionable advantage over your opponent (i.e. Fighter/Mage getting into melee against a Kensai -> Mage) is assumed to be a draw.
If there's a trick your equipment/class/spell choice can bring up that is demonstrably pretty well uncounterable by your opponent, that's considered a flawless victory.
Being able to reliably place yourself into a situation where you have a significant advantage over the opponent (a Kensai -> Mage getting into Improved Hasted melee combat with a pure Mage, a significantly high MR mage getting into a spell vs spell match against a low MR mage, a Gnome getting into a Save or Die battle with a non-Gnome, a Pure Mage getting into a Dispel battle with a Multiclass mage) is considered a victory.
If someone can demonstrate something you've overlooked or neglected to account for, it's your responsibility to account for it.
Stage 3:
Daily life.
For bonus points, how does your character choice perform in a party role? Can they handle the rigours of day-to-day adventuring in a balanced party? Do they even need a party?
The overall winner over the most possible opponents gets to ascend to be the new "God(dess) of Murder Magic", the losers get to weep and wail and presumably plan to change to whichever class/loadout the winner used.