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Barbarian vs Berserker (which is better?)

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I wanted to do an analysis of the Fighter Berserker kit vs the Barbarian class. This is for both BG:EE and BGII, assuming most players plan to take their toons to BGII. This thread is going to have some info, but in the end I am wondering which do you guys think is better.

---Post is mega long, please scroll to the bottom if you just want to see the summary---

The Barbarian:
Can specialize but not master weapons (or eventually Grand Master).
Is limited to splint mail.
+2 Movement.
+1-12 HP/Lvl
Lvl 10: 10% resistance to crushing, piercing, slashing and missile attacks.
Lvl 15: +5% resistance to all the above (15% total)
Lvl 19: +5% resistance to all the above (20% total)
Barbarian Rage: Can rage 1/day every 4 lvls with one/day use beginning at level 1.
Rage bonuses:
+4 Str
+4 Con
+2 AC (positive AC is bad, this is not a good thing) I
Immunity to every form of CC except web/entangle and slow. This includes staple disabling spells like Hold Person, Fear, Confusion, etc.
Duration of 5 rounds
No fatigue.

The Beserker:
Can master (5 points/Grand Mastery is max) in all weapons.
May wear plate and full plate.
+1-10 HP/Lvl
Cannot specialize in ranged weapons (but may be proficient with them)
Berserk: Can Berserk 1/day every 4 lvls with one/day use beginning at level 1 (it does not say that you begin with 1/day at lvl one in the text but you do).
Berserk bonuses:
+2 to hit
+2 to damage
-2 AC (negative AC is good, this is a bonus)
Immunity to every form of CC except web/entangle and slow. This includes staple disabling spells like Hold Person, Fear, Confusion, etc. I want to add that Berserkers also seem to have immunity to feeblemind effects, this immunity is not listed under the Barbarian's Rage ability if anyone knows if feeblemind does work on Barbs let me know. I am currently assuming they do have immunity to it because and the lack of text is just a mishap.
Duration of 1 turn/10 rounds.
Fatigued after Berserk. -2 to hit, -2 to damage and +2 AC (bad AC).


OK - so for starter we need to first think is this character just doing BG:EE or going on to BG2? This changes some things. So I have two comparisons, one that is BG:EE only and another that is assuming you plan on importing to BG2 (and ToB).

BG:EE Comparison:

Specializing vs Mastery (Break Even if you use two different weapons otherwise Pro Zerker)-
So it is actually impossible to Grand Master in BG:EE. The highest level either of these classes can reach is 8 in BG:EE. Though you start with four weapon skill ranks to distribute you are limited to a max of 2 in any category at character creation and you will only two more skill ranks through BG:EE to distribute. Regardless High Mastery (the max you can reach in BG:EE) grants +1/2 attack, +3 to hit, +4 to damage and -1 Speed Factor (negative speed is good). Specialization offers +1/2 attack, +1 to hit and +2 damage with no speed improvement. I have to say that High Mastery is a pretty solid bonus as it next +2 to hit, +2 damage and -1 speed. That's pretty big in BG:EE. In general any to hit bonus is a big deal.
On the flip side the Barb can spread his mastery ranks out into two weapons. Which adds some flexibility. Just remember you do not gain the +1/2 attack from Specialization (or beyond) in your off-hand if you are duel wielding (you do gain the bonus to hit, damage and speed).

Armor Limitations (Neg Barb, Pro Zerker)-
If you were to go on to BG2 this would not be a big deal, but in BG:EE being limited to splint mail is a huge blow. Mega huge. You're talking a 3 AC difference. That is ouch. Sure you can get Splint Mail +1 but then you cannot wear a ring or necklace. The +2 Ring with Full Plate grants a total of -2 AC for the Beserker while the Barb with the same ring and Splint Mail has 2 AC a total of 4 AC difference. That's a huge difference.

+2 Movement (Small Pro Barb)-
Very useful as it makes sure your Barb is in the front of your team, also when you click on random stuff he will get there faster. Just convenient. It does double from the boots of the cheetah you get in at the Mines, which makes you really fast.

+2HP/Lvl (Huge Pro Barb, Neg Zerker)-
The Barb gets 2 more HP/lvl than a Zerker, this is huge in BG:EE and BG2. It's like having +2 Con that doesn't grant regen. Pretty much the Barbarian has two more stat points than a Zerker, or any class for that matter.

Damage Reduction (Doesn't matter) -
For BG:EE you will never reach level 10 for the Barb's damage reduction. It is a big deal in BG2 and ToB though.

Beserk vs Rage (For BG:EE I have to say Pro Zerker):

-Immunities: Berserk lists one additional immunity Rage does not have, feeblemind spells/condition. I have not tested to see if the Barb is immune to feeblemind as well. If someone knows, please post. But if the text is to be believe the Beserker has one extra immunity.

-Uses per day: Same. Though the Beserker does not state that they start with Beserk at level one, they do.

-Duration: Beserk lasts twice as long as Rage. This is a huge advantage for the Beserker.

-Fatigue: Beserk fatigues the Berserker afterwards but Barbs do not fatigue (-2 to hit, -2 damage and +2 AC). This might seem like it is a big disadvantage for the Beserker but it really is not. First the fatigue takes a bit to kick in, so it does not happen as soon as Beserk ends. I cannot confirm this but I believe the fatigue waits until the current combat is over as I have never had it come up in the same combat I Beserked in. Also, since you will sleep after most hard fights for your spellcaster to regen their spells this is not a big downside.

-Attack/Damage Bonuses: +4 Str from Rage is a hell of a lot better than +2 to hit and damage from Beserk. Even as a 19 (or with Str manual, 20) Str Half-Orc the damage bonus from +4 Str is far above Beserk's +2. I do want to add that characters with 19 Str will actually only receive +2 to hit from +4 Str. As 19 Str grants +3 to hit, 21 grants +4, 23 +5 and only 25 Str grants +6. So a Beserker with 19 Str will have the same to hit bonus in Beserk as a Barb in Rage. The damage bonus from the Strength though will always be double or more (23 Strength grants +11 vs 19 Str's +7, +4 net bonus)

-HP Bonus: Rage gives +4 Con, which seems awesome. But it really is not. At 19 Con a warrior class (fighter, barb, paladin or ranger) receives +5 HP/lvl and it is not until 21 Con that this goes up to +6HP/lvl and 24 Con for +7HP/lvl. So this means Rage on a 19 Con Barbarian only gives you +1HP/lvl. If you have 20 natural Con (half-orc w/ Con manual) you can get 24 Con and gain a net +2HP/lvl. But Beserk on the other hand grants a whopping +15 HP from the start (which is awesome). This means only a half-orc Barb at level 8 can overcome the Beserk HP bonus in Rage (he would have +16HP). If you are continuing on the BG2 the Barb's Con bonus vastly surpasses Beserk's, but BG:EE maxes out at level 8.

-AC Effects: Barb Rage increases your AC by 2, this is bad. Beserk on the other hand reduces AC by 2, this is insanely good. Beserkers actually have the best AC for a pure fighter and the second best max AC possible in BG:EE with only Fighter/Mage multi-class characters casting Ghost Armor and Blur on themselves being able to beat them (Ghost Armor = Full Plate and Blur grants -3 AC). On the other hand Barbs have only splint mail which already puts them at a 4 point AC disadvantage. In Rage a Barb is 6 AC off from a Berseker and 8 AC off from the Beserker if the Beserker is in Beserk. A full plate Beserker with Beserk, the +2 Prot Ring, and 18 Dex has a massive -8 AC (possible -11 AC w/ +2 Shield). A Barb in Rage with the +2 Ring, splint mail and 18 Dex has 0 AC. 0 AC is not bad but it does not compete with -8 AC which is simply godly. The Barb would have -2 AC outside of Rage, while the Beserker would have only -6 AC out of Beserk. I want to add that even fatigued the Beserker would have -4 AC vs the Barbs -2 AC and thus even with the fatigue penalty the Beserker's AC will be better.

BG2 and ToB Changes:

-Weapon Masteries: Finally the Beserker can reach that coveted Grand Mastery extra +1/2 attack. Except that in BG2 Grand Mastery was mega nerfed and it does not grant +1/2 attack. It does still grant an extra +1 to hit, damage and -2 speed. There are mods that revert Grand Mastery to the BG1/BG:EE version but those are...mods. This is still a bonus to the Beserker bonuses to hit, damage and speed are always good but you will be very limited in what weapons you can use as Grand Mastery eats up three more Weapons Skill slots (9 levels worth). So if you do not have a very specific plan in mind then the advantage of Grand Mastery is not that big of a deal.

-Armor Selection: In TOB there is -1 AC Scale/Splint Mail that Barbs can wear while the best full plate in the game grants only -2 AC. A one AC difference. So the previous huge penalty for Barbs is gone.

-HP Bonus: Barbs still get more and more HP. I just want to mention this again. More HP = Awesome. Huge Barb advantage that just keeps on giving.

-Damage reduction: Barb damage reduction kicks in at level 10. This might not seem like a big deal in its own right. I mean 10%, 15% and 20% less damage from non-spells? Big deal....But it is a big deal once you gain High Level Abilities (HLAs). One of them (which both Beserkers and Barbarians can get) grants 60% reduced damage just like the Barb's class ability. This stacks with the 20% innate Barb amount for 80% reduced damage. This, is, sick. Seriously. It actually might be better than a Fighter/Mage's Stoneskin. You go from taking 40% damage to 20% damage which if my math is right means you take 50% net less damage. That is crazy. 100 damage dragon stomps now do 20. Hahaha. Barb wins this hands down.

Rage vs Beserk in BG2:
-Strength Bonus: All stats max out at 25, so any value beyond 25 grants nothing more than 25 does. This is important because there is very powerful 1h hammer in ToB that gives you 25 Strength called the Crom Faeyr. It sets your Str to 25. Which pretty much negates Rage. But...If you do not plan on using this hammer there is no other means to obtain 25 Str (except for very expensive and rare potions which only grant it for a short time) other than a Barb's Rage. I want to mention that the Beserker's Beserk stacks with Crom Faeyr's 25 Str bonus as it grants +2 to hit and damage. Since I am bringing up mega powerful weapons there is also a much easier to obtain sword that grants +1 full attack, most people either use that sword (called Blem, it is a scimitar) instead of the hammer if they can reach 25 Str by some other means.

-Con Bonus: Barb gets more HP/lvl as lvls go on over the Beserker. This like the Barb's increase HP/lvl is a gift that simply keeps on giving.

-AC Penalty/Bonus: Beserkers in BG2 and BG:EE have the best pure fighter AC possible. They now must compete with both Fighter/Mages who will always have -1 AC on them as well as Monks who have -1AC/2 lvls for best AC in the game, but they still land in 3rd which is not bad. Because Barb armor is extremely better in BG2 the AC difference for a Beserker in Beserk vs a Barb in Rage is only 5 points rather than 8. This is still pretty damn huge. Outside of rage this is down to 3, which is noticeable but not insane. Anyways, the AC difference is a huge plus to Beserkers. If this outweighs the Barb's extra HP and reduced damage...that is another question.

-Duration and Fatigue: In BG2 you can burn through 4 rages in one fight and not really care. Also with an extended spell list your mages should not need to rest so long. Which means the shorter duration for Rage and lack of fatigue plays out better. Though not a big switch I believe Barbs benefit more from this than Beserkers.

-Random Fighter Item: There is an epic item called the Gauntlets of the Master that grant +1/2 to their wearer in ToB. These gloves for whatever reason can be worn by Fighters (such as the Beserker), Rangers and Paladins but not Barbarians. This might be an oversight and there is likely a mod to fix this but be aware that all non-Barbarian warriors will have +1/2 attack over any Barb. Pretty lame. Blame Black Isle or Bioware. Should fix this in BG2:EE IMO.

Final Score:
In BG:EE IMHO Beserkers are the by far and hands down choice for a pure fighter. While they lose out on some HP they make up for it for the first few level with Beserk. Even late game they still compete. The massive 8 AC difference is insane. And Beserker AC is simply put, insane. They also will oddly enough have a higher to hit bonus than a Barb (due to weapon High Mastery) in and out of Beserk and while not Raging or Beserking the Beserker will do more damage as well (due to High Mastery).

In BG2 the Barb comes into his own. From having a massive HP pool as well as insane damage reduction (very late game), even more HP from Rage and good armor selection the Barb truly excels in BG2. The only thing that would keep the Beserker competative in BG2 would be a Grand Mastery mod that resets BG2's Weapon skills to BG:EE/BG1's versions.

Lastly, Fighter/Mages suck. Please don't post about them.


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